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Brexit
#1
So what do ye make of Brexit?
A total fuck up of monumental proportions or a foretaste of what's to come in the rest of Europe?
Personally I think it's an utter disaster for the UK and potentially could break up the UK.
Although interestingly I read today that the referendum is actually in effect useless, because it's not binding. Parliament is sovereign and it will need a motion passed by a majority of MPs to trigger the UK leaving.
So, as apparently the Remain side supposedly have s majority in Parliament will it even happen.
And as the posts on Fscebook are saying, was it an outstanding piece of political manoeuvring by Cameron in delaying his resignation until October ( by which time one assumes the dark clouds of financial implosion will be gathering) and passing the poisoned chalice to Boris ?
The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are filled with doubts while the stupid people are full of confidence...
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#2
It was a decision made by two types of people: Ignorant, uneducated racists and those too lazy and stupid to do their own research before listening to them.

I use an ex-pat site over here, the amount of Brits living in Spain that were deadset to vote leave was staggering. The fact that their main gripe seemed to be that the EU is forcing Britain to accept immigrants, was laughable.

Of course when it was pointed out that the UK is not part of Schengen and has complete control over their own borders but has declined to implement restrictions that the EU actrually recommends and they themselves are actually benefitiing from the EU forcing a country to accept immigrants, they went silent then started a new thread with a new piece of garbage.

I feel sorry for the sensible people, but the majority voted and deserve what happens.

For the record, I think they will find they aint a mighty empire anymore and the world couldnt give a fuck about them. I also envision many nations actually making things difficult instead of easy for them, think Spain and Gibraltar
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#3
Spot on. It's going to some fun when they discover they'll probably need a visa to go to Ibiza.
One of the mad things is that after the Good Friday agreement, anyone in the North could apply for an Irish Passport.
So can they be an EU citizen and not an EU citizen at the same time?
The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are filled with doubts while the stupid people are full of confidence...
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#4
Its tricky, perhaps only the UK could be as tricky considering the North, Scotland, Wales and Gibraltar but then not as tricky as a country that uses the euro and has a set currency rate.

I think an implimentation time will have to be set. Its not like they will wake up tomorrow out of the EU, some agreements and restrictions will be agreed and given a date to start so anyone looking to remain EU will have time to sort whatever EU passport they are entitled to. 

Gibraltans will need visas, I cannot see Spain letting that one slip by and considering the fights they have already, I also see the border guards and coastguard / navy laughing their tits off as they enforce it to the very letter of the law. 

Then theres imports and exports, have they considered this at any stage? Do they really think they will be allowed continue to access the common market?

Do they honestly believe that the EU will allow a border between north and South Ireland remain open? An island with a huge history of terrorism, smuggling, etc? and if they do, doesnt that blow their reason for leaving out of the water anyway?

I really cannot fathom how they think this will be a good thing
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#5
The Brexit referndum was an attempt by Cameron to call the bluff of the Eurosceptic rump of the Tory party. So what was an internal party political argument became a national referndum on immigration. Once again the Brits haave shown themselves to be ignorant racists being led by old etonian buffoons who havent the foggiest what happens next. 
The leave campaign was  led by a bunch of liars who, when called out on their policies and outright lies responded with " The British people have had enough of experts" statement that was straight out of the Trump playbook.
Functioning mature democracies are based on reason and moderation and when we see soundbites and populism replace reasoned debate and expert opinion we're on a very slippery slope to facism and dictatorship.
We trained hard ... but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
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#6
Personally I think it was a rediculous decision based on faulty logic.

Yes there is a democratic deficit in the EU, but leaving isn't the way to fix it.
The EU need reform, but in a continent that started two world wars in 100 years
Being tied together economically and politically is a good thing.

There is a lot of misguided nationalism behind the leave vote. Unchecked nationalism has proven time and again to be a dangerous thing.

The hypocrisy of a lot of British leave campaigners was shocking to me, there grandparents fought for freedom.....while maintaining an empire that encompassed a third of the globe.
They want to be free from Germany.....while having a German family on the throne.
The want to be free of union with other nations...while living in a nation that compromises 4 countries and three separate legal systems. They want emigration stopped.... While still being entitled to live and work in Spain. They want free trade..... Without any comprimiseson their part.

The false notion of "plucky little Britian" was also bandied about....I'm sorry but with the worlds 5th largest economy and 6th most powerful military...your not plucky little anything.
Whatever your reaching for better be a sandwich....coz your gonna eat it......
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#7
Maybe Cameron is forcing Boris et al to hit the nuclear button. 

An interesting read from the guardians comments section: 

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
It's not the HSE's opinion, it's not managements opinion, it's mine. All mine.
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#8
I read that article MRX and I think it credits Cameron with far too much intelligence. He called the referendum because he thought he could win it and scupper Boris Johnsons Tory leadership ambitions. Cameron made a disastrous decision to hold the referendum and the only thing that saves face for him is that Johnson, Gove and Farage are bigger idiots than he is and havent a clue what happens next. The next 2 years will be very interesting indeed, provided of course they have the balls to invoke article 50
We trained hard ... but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
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#9
I think the perfect storm is on the horizon, protest votes by a community that dreams back to a day of Mills and heavy manufacturing like  car industry that  had their towns alive. The same type of voter will put Trump in as president. All bad news for Ireland Inc.
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#10
Trouble at 't mill allright.
And now Engerland out of the Euro finals. They'll needs visas to get to the next one.
Great result for Iceland.
There won't be a reindeer milked there for a week.
The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are filled with doubts while the stupid people are full of confidence...
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#11
Isn't Facebook wonderful?

Brexit vote vs Mad Cow disease outbreaks. Just saying like...
The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are filled with doubts while the stupid people are full of confidence...
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#12
I think it's brilliant that the "Britain First" leave camp have outdone the SNP and most probably brought about the end of the Union.
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#13
I can see another vote happening
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.

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#14
Boris is out, spitting imagine character if ever I saw one.
"Choose to be great, choose to be powerful beyond measure"
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#15
Mother of God. It’s cringe worthy....
https://www.facebook.com/PeterStefanovic...142217979/
The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are filled with doubts while the stupid people are full of confidence...
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#16
Got what they voted for. It was fools gold to begin with and working on the most naive of populist politics
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