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Roof is cut off police car to get to woman
#21
(04-01-2012, 07:06 PM)flipper Wrote: Can i ask the fire service when is it indicated to cut the roof off a car, I taught when they were only trapped or criticaly injured.

Not having a go59 at the DFB but i seen lots of roofs come off cars for simple collisions, no major MOI. Now I work in an area with retained fire service and 90% of RTC's we extract them as trained, once we can access them.

Im ambulance service not fire service so im probably missing something???

Simple answer Flipper is the retained don't get turned out to RTAs when we should be and the Ambulance crews have to do what is necessary to get the casualty moving.
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#22
Pictured: Firemen forced to cut off roof from �16,000 police car to rescue injured woman

Last updated at 11:04 AM on 12th November 2008

Firemen had to cut the roof off a �16,000 police car to get to a crash victim with back injuries who officers had put inside for her comfort.

The two-year-old estate patrol car was a write-off after firefighters used specialist cutting gear to allow the injured woman to be carried out on a spinal board.

The incident happened after the casualty was hurt when she was in collision with another vehicle in Fakenham, Norfolk, just after 9am on Tuesday.

[Image: article-1085055-02714E3D000005DC-874_468x286.jpg]

She was put in the police car for her safety amid fears she would collapse.

But paramedics decided she needed to be removed from the vehicle on a spinal board - and as a result the roof had to be cut off.

The public and emergency services are regularly warned to leave people with back injuries alone in case moving them makes them worse.

But Supt David Marshall, of Norfolk Police, defended the traffic officers' decision to sit the woman in their car.

The senior officer said: 'Our priority is always the public of Norfolk. In this incident the actions of the officers at the scene once again reinforces this.

'The victim's vehicle received rear-end damage and the woman driver was suffering from shock and was disorientated.

[Image: article-1085055-02714E40000005DC-605_468x286.jpg]

For her own safety and welfare, and in view of busy traffic on this road, she was placed in the police car until paramedics arrived.'

He added: 'The damage to the police vehicle is unfortunate. But it is essential that the welfare of the injured party remains paramount, with officers being guided by the medical assessment of health care professionals who attended.

An East of England Ambulance Service spokesman said the woman, who has not been named, had also been involved in a crash just weeks ago.

The distraught woman was in agony and paramedics warned she had to be taken out of the police car on a special spinal board to prevent further injury.

She was taken to Queen Elizabeth Hospital at King's Lynn and treated for suspected spinal injuries.'


SOURCE
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#23
Doesn't matter too much in terms on insurance for state vehicles, but if joe public put a person into his/her car, and it was decided that the roof had to be removed, and let's just say joe public had only third party insurance - who could joe public claim from???
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#24
(04-01-2012, 07:06 PM)flipper Wrote: Can i ask the fire service when is it indicated to cut the roof off a car, I taught when they were only trapped or criticaly injured.

Not having a go59 at the DFB but i seen lots of roofs come off cars for simple collisions, no major MOI. Now I work in an area with retained fire service and 90% of RTC's we extract them as trained, once we can access them.

Im ambulance service not fire service so im probably missing something???

When I say "right lads, roof off" 148

Seriously though, based on PHECC CPG's it's when the patient or the attending medics tell me they have back or neck pain, or where the MOI suggests possible spinal injury. I also consider it when I think it would make the extrication easier on the paramedics, not forcing them to bend or lift awkwardly. It's the call of The OIC and they have to be able to justify their actions.
We trained hard ... but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
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#25
(04-01-2012, 08:17 PM)Blackbolt Wrote: Simple answer Flipper is the retained don't get turned out to RTAs when we should be and the Ambulance crews have to do what is necessary to get the casualty moving.


Agree fully that fire assist isn't not turned out enough,
With the modern car been safer it's rarer these days that when we drive out to the scene I just extract the patient rather than waiting around.
God bless, EMS
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#26
(04-01-2012, 10:08 PM)flipper Wrote: Agree fully that fire assist isn't not turned out enough,
With the modern car been safer it's rarer these days that when we drive out to the scene I just extract the patient rather than waiting around.

Thats the whole argument in a nutshell mate. You shouldn't have to wait around, we should be alerted at the same time.
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#27
(04-01-2012, 10:05 PM)The Gap Wrote: When I say "right lads, roof off" 148

Seriously though, based on PHECC CPG's it's when the patient or the attending medics tell me they have back or neck pain, or where the MOI suggests possible spinal injury. I also consider it when I think it would make the extrication easier on the paramedics, not forcing them to bend or lift awkwardly. It's the call of The OIC and they have to be able to justify their actions.


Saving the medic bending down, and saving our backs I suppose is a good enough reason in its self
God bless, EMS
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#28
(04-01-2012, 10:08 PM)flipper Wrote: Agree fully that fire assist isn't not turned out enough,
With the modern car been safer it's rarer these days that when we drive out to the scene I just extract the patient rather than waiting around.

That would upset a lot of FF's....
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#29
What the fire service can do for paramedics to assist them and ensure their safety is probably a better reason for you to request them flipper.

We can provide a safe working area for you and your colleagues
We can immobilise and restrain undeployed airbags
We can provide a stable platform for the paramedics to minimise movement
We can assist in lifting and moving the patient
We trained hard ... but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Reply
#30
(04-01-2012, 10:14 PM)The Gap Wrote: What the fire service can do for paramedics to assist them and ensure their safety is probably a better reason for you to request them flipper.

We can provide a safe working area for you and your colleagues
We can immobilise and restrain undeployed airbags
We can provide a stable platform for the paramedics to minimise movement
We can assist in lifting and moving the patient

All genuine and valid reasons, in a rural setting, knowing the nearest fire response is 15 mins away and the patient has already been waiting 10/15 mins on Ambo. We just generally treat and bring to hospital, I Dublin I suppose help is only a few minutes away and they normally arrive with you
God bless, EMS
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#31
Would ye not ask your control enroute if Fire have been called??
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#32
(04-01-2012, 10:23 PM)Brigade Wrote: Would ye not ask your control enroute if Fire have been called??

Depending what ampds code the controller gives out determines if he runs fire/ garda.

I could request fire for every rtc, but some are rang in by passerbys where a fender bender will turn out to be nothing, or the person is out already probably standing,
God bless, EMS
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#33
(04-01-2012, 10:23 PM)Brigade Wrote: Would ye not ask your control enroute if Fire have been called??

I dunno about where Flipper is but down here the Ambulance must be on scene before their controller will turn us out.

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#34
Daft isn't it.
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#35
(04-01-2012, 11:07 PM)Brigade Wrote: Daft isn't it.

Yep!
God bless, EMS
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#36
(04-01-2012, 10:54 PM)Blackbolt Wrote: I dunno about where Flipper is but down here the Ambulance must be on scene before their controller will turn us out.

What numpty cam up wit that SOP
Those who can, do.

Those who can't do, teach.

Those who can't do or teach....... Manage!
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#37
I have been told who but cannot confirm in a public area
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#38
PM if your willing as im always interested to know which idiot are responsible for 146
Those who can, do.

Those who can't do, teach.

Those who can't do or teach....... Manage!
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