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Croke park 2 talks
#21
I agree exactly its the same in my side. Nothing on the horizon that's positive at all.

They can only use the old, "your lucky to have a job" shite so many times before it loses its meaning. Now I never want to wake up and find that life is a million times worse like Greece for example. But we like good little boys and girls have been doing exactly what we are being told to do by Europe, we paid off bond holders, bankers and corrupt politicians and made no real waves, we took a cut in our salaries while taking on more work with again little waves being made. We are now being screwed again after being promised that we wouldn't be, if we allow it now it will haunt us again and again. We as a Country are not Greece and we deserve better. We deserve write downs of debts and representatives who actually represent our interests.

Fool us once shame on you, fool us twice shame on us, fool us a third time and we will be the biggest Fucken egits in Europe. Where are our collective balls I wonder.
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#22
Folks, just a thought on these cuts,

Realistically we do have a good degree of job security. As such we can spend what disposable income we have knowing that we'll be paid again next week or next month. The cuts to allowances and overtime are not to save as much as claimed, as over half goes back in taxes of some sort. ALL of our net income is spent in the private sector. With this agreement we will be spending less. Retailers will see a drop in takings from sales and try cut costs to maintain profits. The cost retailers have the most control over is wages, so wages are cut. And so the downward spiral continues. I know the public sector are only a small part of the population, but I can see the business and employers organisations using this agreement as a way to cut their own staff costs.

In the private sector the biggest job losses have been in construction. They seem to be mostly young lads who walked out of school onto building sites with €500+ into the hand, and no skills. Even without the bubble that was never a viable long-term career choice. Retail has been hit hard. But was the demise of HMV for example caused by the recession or changes in technology. Similarly Xtravision was in trouble long before the bubble burst. The majority working in the private sector have not seen the cuts imposed on the public sector. Many have lost their jobs, but also many have had pay rises. I can't be sure because the figures are not in the public domain. It's easy to be critical of a teacher/garda /nurse/ earning €50,000 as being overpaid when you are getting €70,000 but nobody knows.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opin...66777.html
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#23
Well said SM,

http://www.breakingnews.ie

The Civil Public and Services Union, which represents lower-ranked public servants has threatened industrial action if measures in the €1bn state pay deal are enforced.

The CPSU, one of a number of bodies to pull out of crunch talks on the new pay agreement, claimed that their members have nothing more to give.

The union’s executive committee will make its official ruling tomorrow in response to the draft agreement published yesterday by the Labour Relations Committee.

But general secretary Eoin Ronayne said the committee is expected to advise members to vote against the new pay deal when it goes to the ballot.

He added that workers may resort to industrial action because nothing more can be squeezed from them.

“I wouldn’t rule it out,” Mr Ronayne said. “It’s a traditional tool of all trade unions. What type of industrial action when it will be taken will be considered at a later date.”
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#24
Teacher Unions now rejecting this deal:

Separately, the Irish Federation of University Teachers is to advise its members to vote against the proposed agreement.

The decision was made at a meeting of the union's executive. The union has around 2,000 members, who are due to vote on the deal in the coming weeks.

The Teachers Union of Ireland has also recommended that members vote against the deal. The decision was made at a meeting of the unions national executive tonight. The TUI has around 15,000 members.

The recommendation by the union's officers is not binding and members can vote freely in the upcoming ballot.

http://www.rtenews.ie
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#25
24/7 frontline meeting today to discuss the Croke park deal.... Time to increase work to rule
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#26
Yeah, time to notch it up a gear!
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#27
Siptu aren't meeting till next week, trying to give time for the initial anger to abate?!
We are the willing, led by the unknowning, doing the impossible, for the ungrateful.
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#28
Possibly CS, a shower of watery fucks! 136
It's not the HSE's opinion, it's not managements opinion, it's mine. All mine.
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#29
Looks like a Divide and Conquer move by the Government on Frontline services.
RTE Link
Where there is no guidance, a nation falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety (Proverbs 11:14)
For by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory (Proverbs 24:6)

Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media & incomptent managers, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of excrement by the clean end
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#30
(01-03-2013, 02:37 PM)thorpe Wrote: Looks like a Divide and Conquer move by the Government on Frontline services.
RTE Link


Anyone hear that POA is happy with the deal?
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Supervisor of Crime Prevention Section of Emergency Services Forum
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#31
Supposedly the Fire Services won't be affected either by the new Agreement, because they made enough savings last year. That's from RTE News also.
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#32
(01-03-2013, 04:33 PM)Maverick Wrote: Supposedly the Fire Services won't be affected either by the new Agreement, because they made enough savings last year. That's from RTE News also.


haven't the gardas & NAS made the same savings last year
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#33
The Government has indicated that “the totality of the pay structure” of firefighters could be protected as part of ongoing reforms if the proposed new Croke Park agreement was ratified.

The suggestion was made in a confidential letter sent to the secretary of the Public Service Committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions the Department of Public Expenditure earlier this week.

However, the letter said changes to overtime arrangements set out in the proposed Croke Park agreement would apply to full-time firefighters.

In the letter, the programme director of the reform and delivery office at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform Paul Reid said: “I am writing to confirm that, subject to ratification of the Labour Relations Commission proposals on the extension to the Croke Park Agreement 2013 – 2016, the following has been agreed between the parties:

“In the context of the on-going reform process in the full-time fire service, which will generate significant savings, the totality of the pay structure in respect of full-time fire-fighters will not be affected by the proposals in this Agreement.

“However, this does not apply to the additional voluntary hours worked outside the rostered commitment. In such circumstances, the overtime rates that apply on a national basis in the sector will apply to full-time firefighters and the commitment in the agreement in respect of one unpaid overtime hour per week will also apply to full-time firefighters in respect of voluntary hours only.”

Siptu, which represents firefighters, stayed in the talks on a new Croke Park agreement until the end. However another group, the Irish Fire and Emergency Services Association, was outside the process and is opposed to the proposals.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/brea...ing17.html
pogan,proud to be a member of ESF since Jul 2010
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#34
(01-03-2013, 04:36 PM)pogan Wrote:
(01-03-2013, 04:33 PM)Maverick Wrote: Supposedly the Fire Services won't be affected either by the new Agreement, because they made enough savings last year. That's from RTE News also.


haven't the gardas & NAS made the same savings last year

Yeah, that's what I was thinking also, Pogan.
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#35
From RTE News (02/03/13):

The Garda Representative Association has accused the Government and trade unions of excluding them from the Croke Park pay talks.

Premium payments for working nights and weekends are being cut across the public sector but prison officers and firefighters are being allowed to retain them as savings are found elsewhere.

SIPTU's Patricia King who represents the majority of firefighters said this showed the effectiveness in remaining in talks and influencing the outcome.

She said she did not understand why other unions had decided to stay outside the talks process.

The GRA issued a stinging riposte, accusing the Government and trade unions of excluding them from the talks.

It said its representatives had never been in the same room as trade unions, and were precluded from participating in pay talks since the foundation of the State.

The GRA accused both the Government and trade unions of being disingenous for suggesting otherwise, describing their members as betrayed, angry and disillusioned.

On RTÉ's Six One News, the Deputy General Secretary of IMPACT, Kevin Callinan, said the gardaí had not been excluded from the talks and other unions who hadn't walked out had negotiated on behalf of their members,
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#36
Bruton denies unions 'punished' for leaving talks

http://www.rtenews.is
Updated: 12:55, Saturday, 02 March 2013

Minister for Jobs Richard Bruton denied unions were being punished
Minister for Jobs Richard Bruton has denied workers whose unions left the Croke Park talks are being punished.

Yesterday, it emerged that public service staff who retire before August of next year will have their pension entitlements calculated on their pre-pay cut.
Firefighters will retain their pay structures.

Prison officers will keep evening and weekend premium payments.
Mr Bruton said some people stayed at the talks to negotiate the fairest way of delivering the contribution from their sector and they came up with alternatives which the Government accepted.
Speaking on Saturday with Claire Byrne he said: "There is no question of punishment.
“The Government offered a certain approach. We set forward approaches which we felt would be the fairest way to do that.

“There was a very detailed negotiation throughout the whole period.

“Always on the table were elements in respect of premium pay, elements in respect of higher paid people, elements in respect of longer working hours and elements in respect of increments and a balanced mix across all those were negotiated."
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#37
My better half works within the hse as social carer it's 24/7 job, she has being assaulted and abused, there union impact sold them out she will lose alot if this goes through....we have both talked about leaving and there already is couple after leaving there place already.
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#38
It's appaling Pogan, you can never get out of recession by cutting and yet the most stable of employees paying debts etc etc are being targeted again, breaking the previous deal and destroying confidence, goodwill and respect throughout the whole public sector. IMPACT again seems only interested in supporting management and keeping their over inflated salaries it seems.
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#39
M4j, they've been told that over and over again... U can't cut ur way out of a recession. But they won't listen... Too interested in putting the taxpayer's money into the banks and being the Troika's lapdogs!
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#40
Plus one Maverick, very short sighted.
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