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Croke park 2 talks
#61
there running scared now....they no theres going to be no vote

Department warns Croke Park protections to cease if extension proposals voted down

The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform has warned that the protections against pay cuts and compulsory redundancies in the first Croke Park Agreement will cease if the proposals for a successor agreement are voted down by unions.

It has also confirmed that it has commenced preparing legislation to implement the reductions.

The legislation will be required even if the proposals are accepted by unions.

Earlier, speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation Industrial Officer Phil Ni Sheadhgha said that if the new proposals were rejected, the first Croke Park Agreement would continue in existence until the middle of next year.

Asked about the Government legislating for pay cuts, she said this was not a financial emergency measure bill as the past two pay cuts had been and noted that public servants had already taken a 14% reduction in earnings.

In a statement, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform said it respected and did not wish to interfere in the democratic trade union process on ratifying the proposals.

However, it rejected the INMO claims that the current Croke Park Agreement would extend to the middle of 2014, or that no pay cuts were required.

The statement says that the pay bill reduction of an additional €1bn would be required whether or not the agreement is ratified.

It states: "If the current recommendation wasn't to be ratified the current agreement would cease, along with the protections it gives, as new measures would be required."

The department says that this was "clearly communicated" to the Public Services Committee before the talks.

The department also disputes an actuarial assessment published by the 24/7 Frontline Alliance yesterday stating that employees including nurses could lose up to 11.4% of their earnings under the new Croke Park proposals.

Yesterday, the Government's chief negotiator in the Croke Park talks, Paul Reid, told the Industrial Relations Conference that management believed the average nurse would lose 1.7% net under the proposals.

Today's statement says the total pay bill for nurses last year was €2.035bn, excluding employer's PRSI.

It says the total savings generated from nurses under the new proposals is €57m - 2.8% of last year's pay bill for nurses.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0315/376863-croke-park/
pogan,proud to be a member of ESF since Jul 2010
Supervisor of Crime Prevention Section of Emergency Services Forum
Contact me by mail at pogan@esforum.org
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#62
I just received the most ridiculous laughable email from the divisional rep. It clearly shows a complete back down on how the gra intend on progressing.


Now pass me the lube, it's going to be required.
It's not stalking until you get caught with your pants down...
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#63
(15-03-2013, 06:51 PM)Public slave Wrote: I just received the most ridiculous laughable email from the divisional rep. It clearly shows a complete back down on how the gra intend on progressing.


Now pass me the lube, it's going to be required.


Dont tell me you expected anything different !!
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#64
Are you mad?! Not at all... But I didn't expect it to start with

'Begorragh colleagues"

Or make reference to slow set songs in the 1970s!
It's not stalking until you get caught with your pants down...
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#65
(15-03-2013, 07:07 PM)Public slave Wrote: Are you mad?! Not at all... But I didn't expect it to start with

'Begorragh colleagues"

Or make reference to slow set songs in the 1970s!


ohhhh bring back the 70s please, then i would know to get my tail out of this country, as it has been turned into another Germany, they are coming in here stripping all our assets and when there is nothing left they will leave as well !
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#66
Clio....


Showing your age there love. Showing your age.

Interestingly enough I can speak a bit of German and me second name is apparently German but I wouldn't believe any shite my family say..

I may, just putting it out there, be the off spring of Angela meerkat!
It's not stalking until you get caught with your pants down...
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#67
(15-03-2013, 07:24 PM)Public slave Wrote: Clio....


Showing your age there love. Showing your age.

Interestingly enough I can speak a bit of German and me second name is apparently German but I wouldn't believe any shite my family say..

I may, just putting it out there, be the off spring of Angela meerkat!


As they say age is only a number, and your only as old as the women you are grabbing 21

Is that meerkat! the insurance company 19
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#68
So they say..... Soooooooo they say!
It's not stalking until you get caught with your pants down...
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#69
Just read it there myself and oh sweet Jesus!
Those who can, do.

Those who can't do, teach.

Those who can't do or teach....... Manage!
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#70
I know! I feckin knew I wasn't imagining it.... Despite having woman flu all day I genuinely was like.... Was that for real? I thought.... Seriously... Misreading it!
It's not stalking until you get caught with your pants down...
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#71
http://www.thejournal.ie


Union tells government to ‘stay the hell away’ from voting process
By Michelle Hennessy Share22 Tweet26 Email8

Ragional Secretary of UNITE, Jimmy Kelly.

TRADE UNION UNITE has accused the government of interfering in the democratic process of votes on the extension proposals for the Croke Park agreement.

Today, Jimmy Kelly, Regional Secretary of the union, said ministers and departments have been “paying lip service to the right of union members to vote, before then trampling on the process with misleading statements on pay and reductions required”.

Politicians failed to make a case for cuts in discussions but still persuaded some there was no alternative. They should now be quiet and stay the hell away from subverting the democratic process under way within all trade unions.
Kelly said the government has also failed to produce an analysis of how many jobs will be lost in the private sector as a result of “mugging” public servants for €1 billion in pay cuts.

“It may be that politicians believe what they have been told by leaders in their parties but regular workers know that they cannot take any more cuts, and people working in shops and restaurants and other jobs know that €1 billion less being spent in their place of work will mean a one way ticket to the dole queue or the airport for a life of emigration,” he added.

UNITE has recommended that its 6,500 members vote to reject the ‘Croke Park 2′ pay deal. In a coup for the government last week, the country’s largest union SIPTU encouraged its members on Thursday to accept the terms of the agreement.
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#72
http://www.thejournal.ie

Frontline workers ramp up campaign against Croke Park 2
By Christine Bohan Share14 Tweet42 Email4

Frontline workers at the rally in Tallaght last month

NURSES, GARDAÍ AND firefighters are set to step up their campaign to oppose Croke Park 2.

The organisation representing frontline workers says the deal currently on the table will result in pay cuts of between 3 and 11 per cent for many workers, and are calling for it to be rejected.

The 24/7 Frontline Service Alliance is organising nine ’town hall’ meetings around the country over the next fortnight and is urging public sector employees to turn up. More than 3,000 workers attended a rally at the National Basketball Arena in Tallaght in February in an unexpectedly large show of strength against the Croke Park deal.

“The rally at the National Basketball Arena in Tallaght last month illustrated the mood of defiance,” a spokesperson for the 24/7 Alliance said this afternoon. “The regional meetings will give voice locally to that anger”.

The meetings are being organised by an alliance of the CPSU, IMO, INMO and Unite.

The Alliance says public sector workers will be hit with longer working hours, reduced overtime pay and the elimination of certain payments under the pay deal.

A review carried out by an independent consultant actuarial firm for the group gave specific details on how much frontline workers stood to lose, estimating the following cuts in salaries for public sector workers under Croke Park 2:

Staff nurse: 11.4 per cent cut
Psychiatric nurse: 11.1 per cent
Paramedic: 9.7 per cent
Care assistant: 9 per cent
Executive officer: 7.4 per cent
Higher executive officer: 7.4 per cent
Garda: 5.1 per cent
Garda sergeant: 3.6 per cent
Garda inspector: 3.5 per cent
Firefighter: 3 per cent
Senator: 0.9 per cent

“The rolling out of regional meetings across the country will provide opportunities for all those affected by Croke Park II to be briefed on issues impacting them and allow them to voice their anger,” said the spokesperson. “These meetings are open to everybody, particularly members of unions promoting a Yes vote”.

The next regional meeting will take place in Letterkenny on Tuesday night with other meetings taking place in towns and cities including Limerick, Galway, Sligo, Waterford and Portlaoise.
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#73
Taoiseach backs 'fair' pay deal as union urges vote against it

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 05:21 PM


Taoiseach Enda Kenny has insisted a deal to cut €1bn from the public sector pay bill is fair and proportionate.

As unions waited to inspect the small print of the long-awaited agreement, Mr Kenny said the proposals, which include reduced wages, overtime and increments, will see higher earners contributing the most.

“This is an issue for everybody who puts their shoulder to the wheel and makes a contribution,” Mr Kenny said.

“This is a fair and proportionate contribution across the board. Those who pay the most earn the most.”

The Taoiseach said workers recognised the importance of frontline services being protected.

He said any alternative to the one billion euro pay deal – which will replace the existing Croke Park agreement and will run for three years from July – would not be acceptable.

The Labour Relations Commission is expected to publish the document on line late this afternoon.

Meanwhile, the Association of Higher Civil and Public Servants (AHCPS) has called for its 2,700 members to vote against the cuts.

General secretary Dave Thomas said the decision to recommend a No vote was not taken lightly.

“AHCPS members have already suffered pay reductions of between 15% and 17% before tax and USC increases are taken into account, in addition to extra working hours,” he claimed.

“In addition, these proposals raise legitimate questions as to the actual value that the Government currently places on the work carried out by civil and public servants.”

The AHCPS, which represents mainly high-ranking civil servants and the non-commercial semi-state sector, urged the Government to look at tax reform.

Results of ballots across the public sector trade unions are expected to be known in mid-April.

Meanwhile, the Civil and Public Service Union (CPSU), which represents 12,000 mostly lower-ranking and lower-paid state employees, said it will launch its “Nothing More to Give” campaign.

The CPSU walked out of the talks along with the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO), the Unite union and the Irish Medical Organisation on Sunday night.

The union described the work reforms and cuts as “too deep, too wide and too unfair”.

Mr Kenny said trade unions which stayed inside the talks made significant improvements to initial proposals that ensured those on the lowest wages were protected, and services remained intact.

The largest cuts in pay apply to those with salaries over €185,000, which will be reduced by 10%.

Cuts of 5.5% will kick in for salaries over €65,000, 8% to €80,000 to €150,000, and 9% to €150,000 to €185,000.

Mr Kenny said the cuts, which have also ended the so-called Twilight pay rate for working 6-8pm, will help the State achieve around a third of the savings it needs to plug its massive deficit.

“This is a challenge for everybody and nobody likes that things need to be reduced or cut back, but the trade unions who stayed in the discussions did make significant improvements and alterations to the initial proposals,” Mr Kenny said.

“And for that, they have protected the frontline services by making adjustments to the negotiations that took place here.”

Meanwhile, the country's largest public sector trade union, Siptu, said that its national officers will be taking pay cuts in line with the new proposals.

General president Jack O’Connor, vice-president Patricia King, who negotiated the public sector pay deal, and general secretary Joe O’Flynn said higher earners should have been taxed more in the Budget.

“It is our view that people on higher incomes should have made a contribution through taxation in Budget 2013. We have specifically argued for a levy on those earning in excess of €100,000 per annum,” the three senior trade unionists said in a statement.

“We had intended to declare our intention to take a further pay reduction on the basis that everyone on higher rates of pay should be contributing more through taxation but decided to await the outcome of the public service talks.”

They said their pay would be cut in line with the Labour Relations Commission wage reductions.

“Once again, we reiterate our view that the proper way to secure a contribution from everyone on higher incomes should be through progressive taxation and should not be just imposed on people working in the public service,” the three leaders said.

Siptu also insisted that its pay rates have not been linked to public sector rates for more than 20 years.

Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams claimed the deal was an attack on frontline workers and accused the Labour Party of splitting the trade union movement.

“It does little more than tinker with excessive pay at the top,” he said.

“Labour has failed to protect those on low and middle incomes, either in the private or public sector.”

Mr Adams added: “The fact is that frontline workers did not cause this crisis. The Fianna Fáil leadership and the other elites – the golden circle – caused this crisis.

“There are alternatives. The Government could have brought in a wealth tax. It could have also introduced a third band of tax on those earning more than €100,000.”Home

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnew...jk.twitter
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#74
They want to cut €1billion out of Public Service pay bill. But still they leave the bank staff proceed with wage increases since the bubble burst 5 years ago.

When I signed on the dotted line all those years ago, I was told that my salary would be such and such over the forthcoming years. That was my contract with the government. But they broke that contract and reduced my wages progressively over the years that followed. Why hasn't some one gone down that route??... of suing them for breach of contract?

The wages of the head honchos of all the banks can't be touched by the government coz the government says that "it was in their contract". What's the difference???
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#75
that is a very good question
He who follows the crowd will usually go no further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no one has ever been before  
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#76
(20-03-2013, 03:57 PM)Maverick Wrote: They want to cut €1billion out of Public Service pay bill. But still they leave the bank staff proceed with wage increases since the bubble burst 5 years ago.

When I signed on the dotted line all those years ago, I was told that my salary would be such and such over the forthcoming years. That was my contract with the government. But they broke that contract and reduced my wages progressively over the years that followed. Why hasn't some one gone down that route??... of suing them for breach of contract?

The wages of the head honchos of all the banks can't be touched by the government coz the government says that "it was in their contract". What's the difference???

No difference !! I don't know what sector of es you are in but if you are in AGS do you have a copy of your contract Or terms & conditions ? I doubt it .. I wonder is that legal because I do t have mine and don't know any that have . I'm sure there is something in employment law that states an employee must be furnished with same within a certain time frame?! But I suppose we are exempt from that too ..
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#77
(20-03-2013, 07:48 PM)Pinkhair Wrote:
(20-03-2013, 03:57 PM)Maverick Wrote: They want to cut €1billion out of Public Service pay bill. But still they leave the bank staff proceed with wage increases since the bubble burst 5 years ago.

When I signed on the dotted line all those years ago, I was told that my salary would be such and such over the forthcoming years. That was my contract with the government. But they broke that contract and reduced my wages progressively over the years that followed. Why hasn't some one gone down that route??... of suing them for breach of contract?

The wages of the head honchos of all the banks can't be touched by the government coz the government says that "it was in their contract". What's the difference???

No difference !! I don't know what sector of es you are in but if you are in AGS do you have a copy of your contract Or terms & conditions ? I doubt it .. I wonder is that legal because I do t have mine and don't know any that have . I'm sure there is something in employment law that states an employee must be furnished with same within a certain time frame?! But I suppose we are exempt from that too ..

Pinkhair, I'm AGS too. I agree with what u say... I was never given my contract in writing either. I know that in private employment u are entitled to your contract, terms & conditions within 3 months of taking up ur employment. And as far as i know, your employer can be held liable for it if they don't issue one to you. I've had many years of experience in the private sector to know this. 21
When i signed on the dotted line my contract was based on the advertised rates of salary & increments at that time. And now the tyrants in government have broken their contract of employment with me! :-/
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#78
(21-03-2013, 12:28 PM)Maverick Wrote:
(20-03-2013, 07:48 PM)Pinkhair Wrote:
(20-03-2013, 03:57 PM)Maverick Wrote: They want to cut €1billion out of Public Service pay bill. But still they leave the bank staff proceed with wage increases since the bubble burst 5 years ago.

When I signed on the dotted line all those years ago, I was told that my salary would be such and such over the forthcoming years. That was my contract with the government. But they broke that contract and reduced my wages progressively over the years that followed. Why hasn't some one gone down that route??... of suing them for breach of contract?

The wages of the head honchos of all the banks can't be touched by the government coz the government says that "it was in their contract". What's the difference???

No difference !! I don't know what sector of es you are in but if you are in AGS do you have a copy of your contract Or terms & conditions ? I doubt it .. I wonder is that legal because I do t have mine and don't know any that have . I'm sure there is something in employment law that states an employee must be furnished with same within a certain time frame?! But I suppose we are exempt from that too ..

Pinkhair, I'm AGS too. I agree with what u say... I was never given my contract in writing either. I know that in private employment u are entitled to your contract, terms & conditions within 3 months of taking up ur employment. And as far as i know, your employer can be held liable for it if they don't issue one to you. I've had many years of experience in the private sector to know this. 21
When i signed on the dotted line my contract was based on the advertised rates of salary & increments at that time. And now the tyrants in government have broken their contract of employment with me! :-/

Mmmh food for thought ...
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#79
UNITE's Croke Park Report
Analysis and Information on issues relating to the re-negotiations of the Croke Park Agreement
Damaging Impact of Croke Park 2
This post is written by Michael Burke, former senior international economist with Citibank and currently an economic consultant.

The implementation of Croke Park 2 will have a very damaging impact on the economy and jobs, and as a result will struggle to have any beneficial impact on government finances at all.

That is the verdict based on the experience of austerity measures since 2008. Over that time and until the end of 2011 there were €14.6 billion in spending cuts and tax increases. On the same cash basis GDP fell by €23.6 billion.

This means that for every €1 in austerity measures the economy contracted by €1.6 as workers and businesses, pensioners and others responded to government cuts by making cuts in their own spending and investment. If the response to Croke Park 2 follows that pattern, the economy will contract by about €1.6 billion.

This will lower living standards and hurt jobs way beyond the public sector. Every public sector worker is a consumer of private sector goods and services. Private sector businesses will cut back on investment even further if demand for their products is declining.

As a result, government tax revenues will be hit. To the extent that a further fall in the economy hurts employment, government spending on unemployment benefits and other social welfare will rise.

The saving of €1 billion from cutting public sector pay will be an illusion. Because of that cut in pay tax revenues will be depressed, not just directly on the incomes of those workers but also from the indirect effects on the economy. Government outlays will also be forced higher on social welfare spending. The Department of Finance now estimates that this sensitivity of government finances to changes in the economy is 0.5. So, following a €1 billion cut in public sector pay there will be a fall in the economy of €1.6 billion which in turn will depress government finances by €800 million. Even on government estimates, the saving will be just €200 million.



It may not even be as high as that. According to the EU Commission, the government’s deficit has so far only fallen by about 1% of GDP despite all the austerity measures to date. In effect, €14.6 billion in austerity measures has yielded just one-tenth of that in improvement in government finances.

The economic damage of austerity measures has been enormous. The claim that this is a necessary evil in order to reduce the deficit is false. The deficit has barely moved despite the cuts. Croke Park 2 is unlikely to be any different.

http://crokeparkreport.wordpress.com/201...ke-park-2/
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#80
And the government says this will be the last Croke Park Agreement??... I don't think so! Sure isn't their tax take down already by €250million so far this year. He's right though... If u cut public sector wages it affects the private sector too... Especially in times of austerity!
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