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Community cardiac first responder schemes
#1
Was speaking to someone who's involved in one of these.
He gets text from ambulance control when there's a call locally.

Anyone involved in one of these groups or setting up same?

I'd be interested to know of they work etc
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#2
Not involved personally but I know a few people involved in them here..... They are set up in consultation with your local ambulance operations officer there is documents about the process on the ambulance service website. Once set up a scheme phone will get a text automatically for any cardiac/respiratory arrest in a 10km radius of the scheme.
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#3
Know a bit about them. Originally the plan came in from the UK where it was started and used successfully
There are many schemes around the country in various areas, some operate at different levels/skills but essentially at CFR.

To work effectively they need to be set up in cooperation with the NAS.

Any specific questions send me a PM
The man who never made a mistake never made anything!
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#4
NAS were speaking to OMAC about setting them up recently from what I hear.

I'd love to set one up where I live, but its a huge undertaking, getting everyone on board, training them up, buying a defib & maintaining it, ensuring you have the appropriate people doing it etc.
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#5
I was asked to get involved in a CFR scheme in my local area. But I have had to think twice about it. It's a great idea and I am all for it. My main concern is you are only covered to CFR level, anything more and you won't be covered. So as an emt if I took sp02 or bp, assisted with GTN, then I am doing it on my own bat and the organisation won't stand by me. So you get to sit there, hands tied, and wait for the HSE/DFB lads to arrive. Or if the patient has any other injuries not under the CFR cpgs then you can't treat them. I would find that very difficult. How do any other EFRs, EMTs, paras or APs feel?
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#6
If you're going to cardiac arrests choking as an EMT, and managed to get the patient into a situation where spo2, bp or gtn are called for, I can't see anyone getting too upset about that. don't forget if you're doing it voluntarily you're covered by the good samaritan provisions of the 2010 act too.
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#7
(27-07-2014, 10:02 PM)HarryPotter Wrote: I was asked to get involved in a CFR scheme in my local area. But I have had to think twice about it. It's a great idea and I am all for it. My main concern is you are only covered to CFR level, anything more and you won't be covered. So as an emt if I took sp02 or bp, assisted with GTN, then I am doing it on my own bat and the organisation won't stand by me. So you get to sit there, hands tied, and wait for the HSE/DFB lads to arrive. Or if the patient has any other injuries not under the CFR cpgs then you can't treat them. I would find that very difficult. How do any other EFRs, EMTs, paras or APs feel?


I assume as an EMT you know you don't actually assist with GTN but actually administer it??

I'm with Civdef on this. Drive on and once you practice within CPGs you cannot be touched
“The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits.”
― Albert Einstein
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#8
An unresponsive patient is not always going to be a cardiac arrest, what about a suspected diabetic? I've been to many unresponsive adults, and thank god not one has been a cardiac arrest. Add to that airway management, no opas, igels or suction.

I can't see how you can cover things like this under the Good Samaritan act, an organised group, planning to provide care to the public, it's not as if you are coming across these patients by chance, you are responding to them. Surely this is covered by been a phecc approved organisation.
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#9
It's not as if I carry GTN in my pocket, if I had access to GTN it would be because the patient had it on them. So, hence the assist them with their GTN.
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#10
Just to clarify, the NAS is in discussion with voluntaries about setting up CFR schemes that receive texts for confirmed cardiac arrests ONLY .

Nothing else.

You are covered to as a CFR-community responder only.
You wont be sent to anything else.
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#11
But I'm not sure how CFR schemes that have been set up in the past work. I presume its the same seeing as you have to liason with NAS anyway.

Just the talk at the moment is how NAS is actually prompting the voluntaries to start these up and this is what they're telling them.
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#12
It will be an interesting read when the plan has been drafted.
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#13
The policy for these schemes is already in place:
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/3/na...chemes.pdf
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#14
The CFR schemes do limit the responders to the CFR level regardless of training as they are essentially only meant to be going to cardiac arrests and life threatening cases.

The NAS have it like this as they can stand over the CFR course provided and insurance wise that's all they need from the responders. Otherwise if they insure you as an EMT they need to provide you with the diagnostic equipment and medications necessary.

The CFR bags shouldn't contain BP cuffs, SPO2 but they are finding their way into them.
The man who never made a mistake never made anything!
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#15
(27-07-2014, 10:40 PM)Hooch Wrote:
(27-07-2014, 10:02 PM)HarryPotter Wrote: I was asked to get involved in a CFR scheme in my local area. But I have had to think twice about it. It's a great idea and I am all for it. My main concern is you are only covered to CFR level, anything more and you won't be covered. So as an emt if I took sp02 or bp, assisted with GTN, then I am doing it on my own bat and the organisation won't stand by me. So you get to sit there, hands tied, and wait for the HSE/DFB lads to arrive. Or if the patient has any other injuries not under the CFR cpgs then you can't treat them. I would find that very difficult. How do any other EFRs, EMTs, paras or APs feel?


I assume as an EMT you know you don't actually assist with GTN but actually administer it??

I'm with Civdef on this. Drive on and once you practice within CPGs you cannot be touched

i asked Phecc about this cause CFRs can be sent to chest pain and my query was relating to being an EFR and not using skills such as spo2 bp etc.

If you came across the same call as a civie you'd be covered under the law but because your tasked to it by HSE your acting under HSE insurance to only act as a CFR. In the same regard you wouldn't be touched for not acting to your emt or EFR as your working under the Hse banner if you get me. 
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#16
Recently involved from a training point of view in setting up a local cfr group. It was an ambulance officer from Dublin who travelled down not the local ops officer who I assumed would be in charge of local groups. You have 2 distinct cfr groups, 1 that is linked into ambulance control & dispatched via same & the 2nd is non affiliated to NAS & act as a standalone group. IMO the linked in group is the preferred option. No one can operate outside cfr-c level at the moment which again in my opinon is mad but that's where is stands right now.
E-mail or  PM me.

Irish medic, Moderator,
Emergency services forum
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#17
I agree, all CFR groups should be linked into & activated by ambulance control. There also should be a greater integration of St. John, OMAC, RC & CD, (especially in rural areas) with NAS.

I really don't care the colour of the uniform once the responder compresses, shocks & activates ALS.
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#18
Some great progress from the OMAC CFR groups linked with NAS. Several of them are set to go, not sure how many they set up around the country. There's at least 4 new ones I know of.
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#19
Was it an officer or a LEMT that went down from Dublin? Lad doing that job is a relocated controller
The man who never made a mistake never made anything!
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#20
Omac are also running 999 calls in the west as standard along with CFR groups in both the west and south east to great success 19
Volunteers Are Unpaid , Not Because They Are Worthless. But Because They  Are Priceless !!!
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